Open discussion / feedback

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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Indra » 17 Nov 2013, 14:25

I'm finally here and not entirely sure why I can't reply on Rola's thread regarding game groups.

Currently working on standards for credits, to help out Jotaro's strange credit fetishes. Only got as far as one or two pages...and have been ignoring it ever since.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby gene » 17 Nov 2013, 14:38

Indra wrote:I'm finally here and not entirely sure why I can't reply on Rola's thread regarding game groups.

Now you can.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 18 Nov 2013, 22:29

Indra wrote:I'm finally here and not entirely sure why I can't reply on Rola's thread regarding game groups.

Finally! Welcome, and make yourself at home. :D
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Ultyzarus » 26 Nov 2013, 15:11

Just wanting to let you know that I'm glad to see some discussion in the developer threads! Especially since it clearly shows that the Founders not only listen to us, but work in tight collaboration with us, and that thing are improving towards the intended goal. I don't understand much of these posts, but the idea exchange displayed is, in my opinion, the core of any successful project ;)
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 28 Nov 2013, 23:00

Ultyzarus wrote:Just wanting to let you know that I'm glad to see some discussion in the developer threads!

Oh yes, I am glad to see this lively discussions, too. :D We've waited nearly three years for this to happen, now it has begun.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MK2k » 04 Dec 2013, 12:51

Just wanted to say hello!

I'm MK2k. I contributed a bit to MG, develop software and currently have a data dump of MG in sqlite format including game infos (name, attributes etc.), game groups and companies. The oregami project looks interesting from what I already read about it.

cheers

-- MK2k | http://www.mk2k.net | http://www.emulation-evolved.net
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 04 Dec 2013, 22:51

MK2k wrote:Just wanted to say hello! I'm MK2k.

Hi MK2k, glad to have you here! :)

MK2k wrote:I contributed a bit to MG, develop software and currently have a data dump of MG in sqlite format including game infos (name, attributes etc.), game groups and companies.

A dump of the MG data is something that might earn you some PMs here. :) But we won't use this data for Oregami, that's for sure. We'd love to have you diving into some development-related things, if you're interested, please start the reading here.

MK2k wrote:The oregami project looks interesting from what I already read about it.

Thanks, interesting it is.We're working hard to make it real, too. :)
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby hsssh » 09 Dec 2013, 16:22

I contributed small bits to MG and Wikipedia at some point, but never was very active. Thou I really like reading information about various games so I'm likely to be not much of a help, but I'll stay around and throw some ideas if nobody objects.

That being said, I have some questions on patches and mods, but it seams like I'm not able to create new thread in Features forum. Should I post those questions somewhere else or is there some "first introduce yourself, then post" rule here?
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby gene » 09 Dec 2013, 18:24

hsssh wrote:I contributed small bits to MG and Wikipedia at some point, but never was very active. Thou I really like reading information about various games so I'm likely to be not much of a help, but I'll stay around and throw some ideas if nobody objects.

That being said, I have some questions on patches and mods, but it seams like I'm not able to create new thread in Features forum. Should I post those questions somewhere else or is there some "first introduce yourself, then post" rule here?


Welcome to Oregami! :D

You just qualified yourself for the permission to post everywhere in the forum. So feel free to start a new thread and post your questions! 8)
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby eXo » 12 Dec 2013, 18:05

Hello all. I only recently discovered the ashes of mobygames, and my first thought was to figure out where to move my operations. After looking at the available options, it became apparent that no existing website really fit the bill, and that the hope of what Oregami can be is really the best possible hope at this point.

I go by eXo and eXoScoriae on most websites. I am a mod at Pleasuredome (a website that specializes in mame roms, but also has extensive console and older pc collections). I am also a mod at The Movie Database, where I primarily try to assist with content monitoring and submissions. Mobygames was originally a primary source that I used for something I called eXoDOS. It was/is a 5 volume collection that attempts to collect every DOS game available and make them playable through a menu based front end that has each game preconfigured through dosbox. Archive.org has picked up my work and hosts it there. I am currently working on a version 2 overhaul, as well as a complete (as close as possible anyways) collection of Win 3.x titles in the same format.

So, mobygames was how I originally created my database of games to search for. And once I had hunted down every dos game I could find listed at MG, I proceeded to scan other online game databases to continue adding. Eventually a contributor created a MG scraper for me that allowed me to quickly grab all data from MG and compare it to my own to grab any modifications or additions from the website.

So, I was quite shocked to find that one of my primary sources for my project was dead.. especially after contributing so many changes, corrections, and additions to the site (not nearly as much as some, but enough to be quite disappointed).

So, with all that laid out - my perspective is that a good games database should offer users a way to export or access the data. It never made sense to me that MG made it so difficult for users to obtain the data. Considering it was added by users, they should have the ability to download and use I as they see fit. It would be much more efficient than a scraper, and most likely a lot less taxing on the bandwidth (my scraper loaded every single page for every single game that matched my filter to scan for data). For this reason, and basic viewability, I also am a proponent of a flat view. All of the games info should be right in front of you, in my opinion. Having to click lots of tabs to pull up varying info is needlessly complicated. I am referring to the data primarily, as I can understand screenshots, media art, box covers, and the such all having their own section.

I read through the first few pages of this thread and saw a few calls for everything to be entered from scratch.... and while that might sound doable from a modern console/modern pc game perspective - I think that it would be a death blow to older massive game collections such as DOS. I have around 4,400 unique DOS game entries in my database (mobygames only had about 3,000 of them). I can not imagine who would sit down and type up all 4,400 games. It doesn't make much sense anyways, considering people such as myself have researched these and created our own databases already. Some method of providing data such as my own as a seed for the new site would be a great way to launch with content. Every single game I have in my collection has a title shot and a screen shot. And for every game that had a box I try to locate the box front, back, and an image of the media. All this info is stored in my database as well as freely available in my exodos packs.

For games that have shareware or demos, it might be neat to have links t them on the game page. again, archive.org hosts a ton of this stuff - so you wouldn't even have to host it yourself. Links to GOG for games that are still sold would also be beneficial.

Anyways, I've rambled enough. I would love to help where I can, however my database and scripting skills aren't web based, so I don't have the ability to help much on that end. Maybe some of the data I have compiled over the years can be useful however, or possibly my knowledge of dos and win 3.x games. Whatever I can do, I'll be glad to do it. I would really like to see a definitive games database site, and no matter when or where it pops up, I will be there with the intention of tying my projects to it.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 13 Dec 2013, 23:10

eXo wrote:Hello all. I only recently discovered the ashes of mobygames, and my first thought was to figure out where to move my operations. After looking at the available options, it became apparent that no existing website really fit the bill, and that the hope of what Oregami can be is really the best possible hope at this point.

Welcome to Oregami! :D And yeah, I know that feeling of not finding what you're looking for. Oregami is the product of it.

eXo wrote:I am also a mod at The Movie Database, where I primarily try to assist with content monitoring and submissions.

It's a pity that all these good ressources founded in good spirit will only be good as long as they're not valuable enough to be sold. So, there's quite some other domains that need to be "freed" once Oregami is up and running. Movies / TV is one of them (Oremovi?), non-game software (Orenongami?) and music (Oremusi?) being others. Time will tell, at least there's no lack of vision here. :D

eXo wrote:Mobygames was originally a primary source that I used for something I called eXoDOS. It was/is a 5 volume collection that attempts to collect every DOS game available and make them playable through a menu based front end that has each game preconfigured through dosbox. Archive.org has picked up my work and hosts it there. I am currently working on a version 2 overhaul, as well as a complete (as close as possible anyways) collection of Win 3.x titles in the same format.

Chapeau! That's game preservation by true enthusiasts. And it's one of the great things about running Oregami, that you learn of all those good projects by good people.


eXo wrote:So, with all that laid out - my perspective is that a good games database should offer users a way to export or access the data.

Definitely. Our technical architecture is specifically designed for this, to the extent that the Oregami database website itself will only be a data-consuming client, the only exception being the possibility to write data back to the repository from there.

eXo wrote:I read through the first few pages of this thread and saw a few calls for everything to be entered from scratch.... and while that might sound doable from a modern console/modern pc game perspective - I think that it would be a death blow to older massive game collections such as DOS. I have around 4,400 unique DOS game entries in my database (mobygames only had about 3,000 of them). I can not imagine who would sit down and type up all 4,400 games.

As it looks now, we will be able to import all the data from TheLegacy, so we will start with some 50K games. I strongly believe that a certain amount of your DOS collection will be already up then.

eXo wrote:I would really like to see a definitive games database site, and no matter when or where it pops up, I will be there with the intention of tying my projects to it.

That's good to know. For the moment, just read a bit around here in the forums, and if you encounter something worth commenting, then please do. :)
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby gene » 13 Dec 2013, 23:19

eXo wrote:Hello all. I only recently discovered the ashes of mobygames, and my first thought was to figure out where to move my operations. After looking at the available options, it became apparent that no existing website really fit the bill, and that the hope of what Oregami can be is really the best possible hope at this point.

A "welcome" also from me!

MZ per X wrote:
eXo wrote:I would really like to see a definitive games database site, and no matter when or where it pops up, I will be there with the intention of tying my projects to it.

That's good to know. For the moment, just read a bit around here in the forums, and if you encounter something worth commenting, then please do. :)

You just got the rights to post everywhere in the forum 8)
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby dmaxwell81 » 14 Dec 2013, 22:34

Although not a top 50 contributor at MG, I was in the top 200 and had done several hundred original game scans (including pictures of boxes/carts of games that there was none of on the entire internet), and I just found out about MG's implosion. I have to say at this point, I will never trust them again, even if they fixed all of the problems.

Even before the site died, I hated the watermarking, the slow-to-no responses from approvers (I have one 'escalated' unapproved game sitting in my queue from 2011), so I would have been open to a new scraper friendly site even before this. There were several games for Game Boy they would not approve ('because they arent games') such as the King James Bible and the Personal Organizer...they tried to compare it to approving a copy of Windows 95 in the Pc category but it is different for consoles. Thanks to that, I couldn't add my entire GB collection. They also took forever to respond to/act on new system suggestions. I never understood why Famicom Disk System, Arcade games, and Tiger/similar Handhelds weren't on the site.

My initial thoughts on the current situation/this new project.

1. I think I agree with several others that have said that these kinds of sites will not work if they become primarily commercial. I was attracted to these databases as a means for scraping in programs like gcstar, and the fact that mobygames cared about obscure old systems meant that I could slowly add my entire collection. The limited sites that have pseudo-databases like Gamespot don't care about old games that no one can make money off of. That is of course the entire reason I am here to begin with.
2. I don't think I like the 'Origami' name, personally. (not a deal breaker of course!) The site should state what it is.._______Games or something related. If I hear of a website called 'Origami' I am going to think it is a how-to-site for the eponymous Origami cranes that it is obviously named after, or some kind of anime fan site. I understand that the owners probably want a name that is not associated with just one language (as the word 'games' is), though.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 15 Dec 2013, 21:40

Welcome at Oregami, glad you found us, too! :)
dmaxwell81 wrote:I have to say at this point, I will never trust them again, even if they fixed all of the problems.

My wake-up point was the sale to GameFly in 2010. Looking back now, I don't understand why I didn't wake up earlier.

dmaxwell81 wrote:There were several games for Game Boy they would not approve ('because they arent games') such as the King James Bible and the Personal Organizer...they tried to compare it to approving a copy of Windows 95 in the Pc category but it is different for consoles. Thanks to that, I couldn't add my entire GB collection.

This issue was discussed, but not decided on, in this thread. Feel free to voice your opinion there. (gene will give you posting rights soon.)

dmaxwell81 wrote:2. I don't think I like the 'Origami' name, personally. (not a deal breaker of course!) The site should state what it is.._______Games or something related. If I hear of a website called 'Origami' I am going to think it is a how-to-site for the eponymous Origami cranes that it is obviously named after, or some kind of anime fan site. I understand that the owners probably want a name that is not associated with just one language (as the word 'games' is), though.

It's an abbreviation for "Open Registry Of Game Information", so it's spelled Oregami. :) While it's true that there are people mistaking us for a paper folding site (We have people liking us on Facebook from time to time, who are clearly not looking for a video games site.), I still think that the name is good. It's easy to recognize, it's a positive word in many parts of the world, it sticks, and it's not such a boring name like "IVGDB Internet Video Game Database". Indeed, I personally think that part of MobyGames' success was it's name being not boring and generic. :)

Long live the Paper God! :D
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby hsssh » 16 Dec 2013, 18:20

Well technically speaking Moby isn't dead, they can fix up some things and some people will probably still contribute. Sure, its in shambles compared to what it was but I feel that people are a rushing a bit with putting a final nail into it.
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