Open discussion / feedback

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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Ultyzarus » 07 Oct 2013, 22:09

gene wrote:
Ultyzarus wrote:I started a page to test it, it appears the Japanese fonts don't show...

You mean these Japanese fonts?
Image

Seem to work for me.


Works okay for me too, now. How does that look? Do I go on like this (I'll also add some release info)
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby gene » 07 Oct 2013, 22:45

Ultyzarus wrote:Works okay for me too, now. How does that look? Do I go on like this (I'll also add some release info)

Yeah, looks good.

One detail: It might be helpful if you prepend the words "ReleaseGroup" and "Release" before the lines. Could be better understandable with regard to the data model.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Ultyzarus » 07 Oct 2013, 22:56

gene wrote:
Ultyzarus wrote:Works okay for me too, now. How does that look? Do I go on like this (I'll also add some release info)

Yeah, looks good.

One detail: It might be helpful if you prepend the words "ReleaseGroup" and "Release" before the lines. Could be better understandable with regard to the data model.


Added them, and used header fonts, too.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby gene » 07 Oct 2013, 22:58

Ultyzarus wrote:Added them, and used header fonts, too.

That looks awesome! :D
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Foxhack » 08 Oct 2013, 00:24

MZ per X wrote:
Rola wrote:Another thing I couldn't find on your database graph was game's "business model". As I already said on the forum, MobyGames wrongly assigns it to technical specifications of given platform, while it should be tied to given release. I gave the example of Teenagent, originally released as commercial (Poland), soon after as shareware (USA) and now freeware (worldwide) - all PC (MS-DOS).
Just implemented it. :) Here's the list, please comment if I forgot something.


Sorry for bringing the topic back to this, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable using "full price game" and "budget value game" as variants. What is full price in one country can cost next to nothing in another due to regional pricing. Just ask Russia, their releases are incredibly cheap solely to offset game piracy (and even then it doesn't always work) and Brazil (whose games are obscenely overpriced because of idiotic import taxes, so people just pirate stuff.) And even a full price PC downloadable game can cost one dollar OR LESS.

This also needs the following release variants added:

* Unlicensed games - for consoles that require a manufacturing license from the creator. This doesn't always mean piracy.
* Donationware - for games that only require you to donate something to charity or the like.
* Commercial (pack-in games) - applies to both consoles and PCs.
* Commercial (OEM) - games that came bundled with PC hardware.
* Covermount (magazine game discs)

And lots of other things.

How do I add stuff there? With my forum account or something else?
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby gene » 08 Oct 2013, 04:17

@Foxhack:

You have to signup to our Jira.
Jira and Confluence (wiki) share the same user base, so this will make it possible for you to login to the Wiki some minutes afterwards as well.
I will have to give you the rights to edit/create pages in the wiki, but that can be done very quickly.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 08 Oct 2013, 22:05

Foxhack wrote:Sorry for bringing the topic back to this, but I'm not sure I feel comfortable using "full price game" and "budget value game" as variants.
No problem at all, please keep on reporting brain damage when you encounter it. ;)

Foxhack wrote:What is full price in one country can cost next to nothing in another due to regional pricing.
Yeah, this was meant more like "Developed for the full price market", but that's all quite subjective, I guess.

Foxhack wrote:This also needs the following release variants added: ... And lots of other things.
Please go wild. :) Once everything is added, we can sort it out, because I suspect that some options are not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Rola » 09 Oct 2013, 01:35

MobyGames had useful "monthly subscription fee" tag - it should be grouped with business model.

What I wanted MobyGames to recognize are games with "virtual economy". Don't like the term, just as imprecise as "virtual reality" or "3D". I mean micropayments for in-game items/bonuses/currency which are consumable/temporary. That makes those games bottomless pits where you can throw your money ad infinitum. The games are built around that trick, that's it: their playing mechanics were designed so that players should invest their money constantly. I say it's very important to highlight this.

What is shareware? It's an umbrella term of the yesteryear, again not-so-precise. Utilities often are trial versions ("after 30 days the program will lock, pay to use it longer"), while games are similar to fully working demos ("play first few levels for free, if you want all - pay").
How this is different from freemium of today? "Shareware" implied "pass on the copy", while now such games are usually hosted online (users don't distribute them). I'd group them together, after all it's similar model: "play a bit for free, if you want more - pay".
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Foxhack » 09 Oct 2013, 02:44

Rola wrote:MobyGames had useful "monthly subscription fee" tag - it should be grouped with business model.

I agree. MMORPGs would be covered by this, as would some online communities like iRacing.com.

Rola wrote:What I wanted MobyGames to recognize are games with "virtual economy". Don't like the term, just as imprecise as "virtual reality" or "3D". I mean micropayments for in-game items/bonuses/currency which are consumable/temporary. That makes those games bottomless pits where you can throw your money ad infinitum. The games are built around that trick, that's it: their playing mechanics were designed so that players should invest their money constantly. I say it's very important to highlight this.
+1 to this as well. But there are games that started out as commercial then devolved to this business model (like Team Fortress 2) or vice versa.

Rola wrote:What is shareware? It's an umbrella term of the yesteryear, again not-so-precise. Utilities often are trial versions ("after 30 days the program will lock, pay to use it longer"), while games are similar to fully working demos ("play first few levels for free, if you want all - pay").
How this is different from freemium of today? "Shareware" implied "pass on the copy", while now such games are usually hosted online (users don't distribute them). I'd group them together, after all it's similar model: "play a bit for free, if you want more - pay".

Freemium games are usually locked to an account system that keeps track of your payments / your activity. Shareware games typically aren't, they're just "unlock a full game by registering" or the like. They shouldn't be grouped together.
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Update on the status at MG

Postby Ultyzarus » 16 Oct 2013, 19:09

As this message shows:
Re: Redesign bugs Message is unread
erav (25264), Today, 08:14 AM
I guess there was an update TODAY as MORE FUNCTIONS GET DOWN. I can't add any additional info about the game (alternate title, cheats, release, and all others except credits) when adding a new entry, although this was working just yesterday. Contribution panel on the left isn't working either. Can't believe this .


The situation at MG has gotten even worse. That means that my returning there is pretty much not possible at this time. That also means that I will pretty much be available full-time for Oregami, and be glad to be among the first settlers.

If you need help with anything that might make the Oregami database go live even a bit faster, just ask ;) In the meantime I'll keep working on the FF oregami wiki. Once the base arborescence is up, I'll go in deeper details with each Release. Just stop me if you think I'm ever going too far ;), but I need a place to drop all that information until the site goes live :P
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Re: Update on the status at MG

Postby MZ per X » 17 Oct 2013, 22:40

Ultyzarus wrote:The situation at MG has gotten even worse.

This is unbelieveable. Okay, it may well be that the old code base is a big, hairy mess that's impossible to work with if you're not Brian Hirt. But GF doesn't seem to have any testing in place, or don't know what and how to test before shooting it to the live server.

Ultyzarus wrote:That means that my returning there is pretty much not possible at this time. That also means that I will pretty much be available full-time for Oregami, and be glad to be among the first settlers.

Which is nothing short of great! :D

Ultyzarus wrote:If you need help with anything that might make the Oregami database go live even a bit faster, just ask ;) In the meantime I'll keep working on the FF oregami wiki. Once the base arborescence is up, I'll go in deeper details with each Release. Just stop me if you think I'm ever going too far ;), but I need a place to drop all that information until the site goes live :P

Thanks for that, nobody wants to stop you. :) The more I look at the wiki, the more I think that this Final Fantasy series is just nuts. :shock: But it's really important work cause the games we model now will be our reference data to showcase the capabilities of the Oregami database later on.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Patrick » 19 Oct 2013, 23:01

Just read the new update by Corn Popper
(...) About why this launch is so buggy. Well as many of the approvers know we did have a preview launch to test the site and submit bugs. Many of those bugs were fixed as I know as I verified and updated the forums on the work progress. Somewhere between that time and the relaunch that code seems to have turned up missing or something... the contract programmer at the time said that he checked in all work and what not and told Greg that it was good. So somehow it happened that the code in this relaunch appears to not be what the approvers and I tested that was pretty solid for the most part. Either way no one seems to know where that fixed code is so we have to start square one and drive on. (...)

I really don't know what to say about this. This is so... stupid.

Edit: I want html!
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 20 Oct 2013, 20:32

Patrick wrote:I really don't know what to say about this. This is so... stupid.

Just one word: F A I L .

The storm in the forums at Mobygames just started, time to get the popcorn.
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby Ultyzarus » 20 Oct 2013, 20:49

MZ per X wrote:
Patrick wrote:I really don't know what to say about this. This is so... stupid.

Just one word: F A I L .

The storm in the forums at Mobygames just started, time to get the popcorn.


Popcorn? Isn't that Corn Popper's job to provide the entertainment, then? :P
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Re: Open discussion / feedback

Postby MZ per X » 20 Oct 2013, 21:34

Ultyzarus wrote:
MZ per X wrote:
Patrick wrote:I really don't know what to say about this. This is so... stupid.
Just one word: F A I L . The storm in the forums at Mobygames just started, time to get the popcorn.
Popcorn? Isn't that Corn Popper's job to provide the entertainment, then? :P

Oh, he does. He does! His answers are just what's needed for a great spectator experience. ;)
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