Data Model: game and release

[Patrick]

By the way, let's talk semantics. On MobyGames, we define "Release" as everything which requires the user to re-download the whole thing instead of a smaller file which updates the existing installation (which would be a patch). While this is technically correct, it is a bit of a pain for mobile games and certain freeware games. I remember one for which I had to add about 50 new releases because of that. There were basically a lot of patch-like updates (but techncally not a patch) and a few major new releases. What I want to say is that maybe we should not get too technical with our definition of "patch".

[MZ per X]

What I want to say is that maybe we should not get too technical with our definition of "patch".

I fully agree. IMHO this is a thing that cuts both ways. It's not only the "stable" updates of open source games or mobile ones not being full releases, I consider many good ROM-hacking patches to be full releases. For example, every translation of AEON Genesis is high-quality, and should be considered as a full English release of the game although technically it's only a patch.

[Foxhack]

What I want to say is that maybe we should not get too technical with our definition of "patch".

I fully agree. IMHO this is a thing that cuts both ways. It's not only the "stable" updates of open source games or mobile ones not being full releases, I consider many good ROM-hacking patches to be full releases. For example, every translation of AEON Genesis is high-quality, and should be considered as a full English release of the game although technically it's only a patch.

Uh. No.

Translation patches should not be counted as releases. Ever. And I say that as someone who's been friends with Gideon Zhi for over fourteen years, who has contributed effort to their patches -and- as someone who has made several translation patches himself. We're not gaming companies, we never distribute the full games. If anything this should be counted as... trivia or a link or something.

[MZ per X]

We're not gaming companies, we never distribute the full games.

Yeah, I know. Sorry if it came across otherwise, but I meant "full release" more in a technical way for the data model.

If anything this should be counted as... trivia or a link or something.

The problem with this is that for many games, the efforts of the translation scene are the only way to play them in English (or other languages). If we want to show all the languages a game can be played in within the database, trivia or links won't be sufficient. I'd love to somehow put these cases into the data model, as I deem the translation efforts very important.

[MZ per X]

(Continued the discussion about the criteria for a different game in a new thread.)

[Ultyzarus]

At one point does a RG split? What is needed for a new RG to be added, is an additional dungeon on new class enough? Are minor tweaks enough? For now I didn't split any of those in the wiki, because most often the localization has slight changes from the original, and it could be a hassle to sort through all that.

I was also wondering if in the case of a multiple platform simultaneous release (ie: PS3, PC and Xbox 360), each release is separate or if it is a single released that is linked to all Platforms RG.

[MZ per X]

At one point does a RG split? What is needed for a new RG to be added, is an additional dungeon on new class enough? Are minor tweaks enough? For now I didn't split any of those in the wiki, because most often the localization has slight changes from the original, and it could be a hassle to sort through all that.

We already have one RG per platform which should cover many cases. So it must be re-releases for the same platform which you are talking about, that could qualify for the "Enhanced Re-Release" case above. Can you give a specific example to look at?

I was also wondering if in the case of a multiple platform simultaneous release (ie: PS3, PC and Xbox 360), each release is separate or if it is a single released that is linked to all Platforms RG.

If it's a release for three platforms coming in the same box, it's one R linked to three RGs. But if it's three different boxes, one for each platform, then it's three R.

[Ultyzarus]

I started preparing my folders and put up an example. It contains a main folder for the Game, subfolders for each Release Groups, and a folder for each Release containing the scans, date Sources and Title Lists. This one is incomplete, as it would be too big of a file to upload, but it contains various info:
See PS3 -> Japan (Retail) and PS3 - Collector's Edition -> Japan (Digital)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/489 ... %20XIV.zip

[MZ per X]

I started preparing my folders and put up an example.

Wow, cool collection! Is this an example for a new RG? A Realm Reborn is definitely worth a new RG.

[Ultyzarus]

I started preparing my folders and put up an example.

Wow, cool collection! Is this an example for a new RG? A Realm Reborn is definitely worth a new RG.

A Realm Reborn would have to be a different game. It is at the same time a remake and a sequel of the original FFXIV. It has the same base jobs, enemies ans places, but the storyline and the maps have been completely redone. The character creation is also more complex...

For my example, the game is FFXIV A Realm reborn, with four RGs: PS3, PS3 Collector, Windows and Windows Collector, each having different Rs.

[MZ per X]

I started preparing my folders and put up an example.

Wow, cool collection! Is this an example for a new RG? A Realm Reborn is definitely worth a new RG.

A Realm Reborn would have to be a different game. It is at the same time a remake and a sequel of the original FFXIV. It has the same base jobs, enemies ans places, but the storyline and the maps have been completely redone. The character creation is also more complex...

Oh, okay. Didn't know that. But you're right. Besides the different game criteria, we need to work on that different RG criteria,too. Still much thought to put in there.

[Ultyzarus]

Actually, I think the collector's editions would be Rs rather than RGs. So the only RG for now would be PS3 and Windows for that one. Unless the in-game bonus material that come with the Collector's Edition make it an actual RG...
That one here has an interesting RG split for the PS2 platform: http://wiki.oregami.org/display/OR/Final+Fantasy+X
The International version has additions that are also part of the European releases, but not the North-American or original Japanese ones.

[Ultyzarus]

For the PSOne Classics (Digital PlayStation versions), here is how I'd make the R, with each RG it is linked too:
http://wiki.oregami.org/pages/viewpage. ... Id=4489360

[MZ per X]

Actually, I think the collector's editions would be Rs rather than RGs. So the only RG for now would be PS3 and Windows for that one. Unless the in-game bonus material that come with the Collector's Edition make it an actual RG...

Yes, an RG split is solely due to gameplay differences. DLC also don't count, as these are separate add-ons. I didn't implement a way to flag "special" releases, yet, but that seems to be lower priority, I guess.

That one here has an interesting RG split for the PS2 platform: http://wiki.oregami.org/display/OR/Final+Fantasy+X
The International version has additions that are also part of the European releases, but not the North-American or original Japanese ones.

Interesting, indeed, what additions? There are two Japanese releases added to both RGs, why that?

For the PSOne Classics (Digital PlayStation versions), here is how I'd make the R, with each RG it is linked too: http://wiki.oregami.org/pages/viewpage. ... Id=4489360

I think that the PS Vita release needs to be a separate R entry, because otherwise we won't be able to distinguish the release dates between the three platforms. That's because the release date isn't saved with the RG <---> R connection, but elsewhere (R <---> Region). If we'd do a single R for all three platforms, we'd have 2 release dates linked to it, but couldn't show the earlier date for PS3/PSP, and the latter date for PS Vita.

[Ultyzarus]

Actually, I think the collector's editions would be Rs rather than RGs. So the only RG for now would be PS3 and Windows for that one. Unless the in-game bonus material that come with the Collector's Edition make it an actual RG...

Yes, an RG split is solely due to gameplay differences. DLC also don't count, as these are separate add-ons. I didn't implement a way to flag "special" releases, yet, but that seems to be lower priority, I guess.

Maybe having two separate title fields could be used here. One for the actual title, one for other parts of the title that applies to a R, but not RG (ie. Greatest Hits, International, Collector's Edition, Ultimate Hits, Platinum, etc.)

That one here has an interesting RG split for the PS2 platform: http://wiki.oregami.org/display/OR/Final+Fantasy+X
The International version has additions that are also part of the European releases, but not the North-American or original Japanese ones.

Interesting, indeed, what additions? There are two Japanese releases added to both RGs, why that?

Some FF titles have have had later re-releases tagged as International, either because of additions made in the localization, or other additions made after the original release: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Inte ... al_Version
The Kingdom Hearts series also had a similar treatment: the Final Mix releases.

In this specific case, "This edition of Final Fantasy X includes new Sphere Grids, new bosses such as the Dark Aeons, and with a bonus disc filled with special features. The International version is the only version of Final Fantasy X that was released in Europe and for that reason was not tagged with the "International Edition" tag. "

Each of the RGs have the regular edition, and the budget releases (Mega Hits and Ultimate Hits for the International). Square-Enix created the Ultimate Hits brand for budget re-releases of their games. I believe it is somehow the equivalent to the European Platinum releases and North-American Greatest Hits, except it's not console-specific.

For the PSOne Classics (Digital PlayStation versions), here is how I'd make the R, with each RG it is linked too: http://wiki.oregami.org/pages/viewpage. ... Id=4489360

I think that the PS Vita release needs to be a separate R entry, because otherwise we won't be able to distinguish the release dates between the three platforms. That's because the release date isn't saved with the RG <---> R connection, but elsewhere (R <---> Region). If we'd do a single R for all three platforms, we'd have 2 release dates linked to it, but couldn't show the earlier date for PS3/PSP, and the latter date for PS Vita.

I see, it does make sense that way. I figure there is a way to link the different RGs that are actually the same version of the game?